Dave: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm 

Lana: David. 

I'm Lana. 

Dave: And we are Lana and Dave. 

Lana: We are in Season 4, Episode 2. 

Dave: ~That's right. ~

That's right. The first 

episode, it was a big surprise. Guessed it was a special guest. See? I'm really truly back. That's 

Lana: when my doorbell rang. Remember that? 

Dave: ~Remember? ~

Lana: Ding dong. It has been an interesting month.

I'm sure we've had a lot of stuff going on in our own lives that's been hectic and crazy. We live in New England, both Dave and I, so the weather's been wonderful, fantastic. It's like ice and snow and ice and more ice and some snow. Maybe a little bit of rain and then more ice. Wonderful. 

Dave: Yeah, I actually slid my way into here today, coming down some stairs.

~I ~I almost took a little digger. 

Lana: You almost have to walk around with your own rock salt. I know. You just have to walk around with it in your pocket and throw it in front of you. That's a good plan. Obviously you don't want just genuine rocks on your pocket. So put it in like a container or something.

~But I'm just saying. ~

Dave: Well no we can bring back fanny packs and [00:01:00] then they have ~a useful, ~a use for 'em. ~They won't be so stupid. ~Be like, you go wearing a fan pack. That's my rock salt. 

Lana: Originally. they weren't supposed to be -people just did all kinds of stuff with that that didn't need to happen. . Like they were supposed to be "I'm jogging, I need to make sure I have my keys." Done.

That's the only reason. 

My keys in my wallet. Yeah. So and then it was just like no, I just wanna take it everywhere. It became a mom thing. 

Dave: ~It became, ~then it became an everybody thing. That was a little weird. Do you remember 

Lana: this has nothing to do with anything, but it just, my brain is so weird.

Do you remember bicycle shorts? 

Dave: Of course I do. 

Lana: But bicycle shorts started off as like actual bicycle shorts, like just facts are so weird like that. I know, now people wear them all the 

Dave: time. 

Lana: I don't think it's as big as it used to be. There was a point in like the early nineties where it was like a fad, a literal, everybody had to have a pair ~in their, ~or two in their ~like ~locker or their closet or whatever, but they started out as ~like ~gym things that dudes that were on bikes that were.

That was it. Doing the, I, whatever. The Iditarod is dogs. What was it? The, what's the bike [00:02:00] marathon? I forget. Anyway, the guys were just like out doing five and ten miles on ten speed bikes. That was what they wore. It was just like. 

Dave: Yeah. It was for bikes. And now ~it's then ~they come out with the The yoga pants, which is just everywhere people ~warm ~at yoga.

Now they wear them everywhere. It's a thing. So just like anything, it's 

Lana: weird. ~It's ~I guess, but it's just the fanny pack just went way beyond what it ever needed to ever be. I 

Dave: call great marketing or something there. I never had a fanny pack. ~I'm not, I ~actually, I did have a fanny pack.

I just didn't wear it. I used to wear it when I was on the motorcycle. I would strap it on and throw it on the back because I didn't want to lose my wallet or anything while I was on the bike. That's fair. But 

Lana: you would, I guess you would venture to say then that you used it for something it wasn't meant for.

Dave: ~I, ~I did. ~And, ~but ~I didn't keep, ~I didn't keep it on. It was never a part of my fashion. That's for sure. I 

Lana: have a fanny pack and the only time I use it is ~to ~literally to walk my dog. 

Dave: ~Yeah. ~

Lana: ~It has dog shit on it. ~It has ~like ~doggy bags. ~It has ~a couple of ~like ~cookies ~on it. It has ~A few things ~like that, ~that ~like ~I would just need when I was out walking around with the dog, then I take it off and put it away, and that's it, I don't use it.

Dave: I can see the convenience behind [00:03:00] it, but, ~it's kinda like a, ~especially where it became really popular for men, because we don't have shit to carry our stuff in. We never ever 

Lana: have that. Do you know how many men had to go and had their ~like ~frigging spines adjusted from sitting on their wallets?

That's actual medical thing. It's a real thing. ~Yeah. ~Yeah. Cause our wallets would get so thick and then we'd end up with back problems. ~Yeah. Numerous. I, ~I remember when I was having back problems and the doctor goes, can I see your wallet? ~And ~I pulled out this big fat thing that was like three inches thick and he goes, yeah, keep that out of your, put it in your front pocket and you'll be fine. Yeah. 

It's just like it literally would cause like spinal curvature and issues with balance and all kinds of stuff. ~Yeah that's that thing where ~That's a thing where like men just like gradually fall into a habit that they just don't.

I find men to be very oblivious about, and I'm not, you know what, I shouldn't do this because that's not true. I'm sure there's a lot of women that are the same. I don't think anything is gender specific where men are, but I just think men are less ~Transcribed ~

Dave: Yeah, we don't pay attention as much.

~Like ~

Lana: likely to look at what they're doing day to day and realize, Oh, I'm causing my own problem here. This seems like something that they 

Dave: just [00:04:00] don't. ~We have a there was a, there's study, ~there was studies done on the whole wallet thing. And when I read that this was years ago, I looked at it cause when it happened to me, I was like, that's interesting that, I wouldn't even realize that.

Something like that would cause an issue. ~You don't, ~you just don't think it's something you do every single day, but anything you do every day, like there are women that wear their purse on the same shoulder all the time and they end up with nerve damage with ~a ~purses because it's heavy, purses over the years get to be these little small things into these huge bags that carry all kinds of crap in there.

They wait. I remember picking up a girl's bag and going, what the hell you got in there? ~Wait what the hell? ~You know what I mean? Yeah, like they end up with 5, 000 bottles of water 

Lana: and all kinds of other stuff. Yeah, 

Dave: it's crazy. 

Lana: But yeah, ~you, ~it's anything that you do in life that's gradual, it's good in the sense that as human beings and we'll get Bonnie back in on this, but there's a subconscious versus conscious brain activity that happens.

And in the beginning you have to actively consciously do a thing for I forget how many days it depends on what it is I usually 

Dave: say nine days ~is like a thing that not ~

Lana: ~yeah ~So ~I read a me being a nerd that I am ~I read a book ~a ~specifically ~thick book ~on the [00:05:00] actual brain Activity that goes on when you create habits, right?

And what habits take and there's actually a bullet point list of different things that you're doing Depending on what it is. It takes different amounts of time So I think ~like the ~gym activity takes almost like 57 days or ~60 ~something like that but then there's also this ~sub ~stuff about friction and non frictional stuff meaning ~like ~if you Want to go to a gym and you live within three miles of a gym You're more likely to go to a gym than if you live ~what is ~what is causing you friction and what is causing you less friction?

~right ~Is it easier for you to go to the gym on your way home or is it harder for you to get back in the car and go to a gym that's 12 minutes away? Like all that kind of stuff matters. If you just try to do something to the point where it's a habit, it takes something like, I think a general amount of 21 days, depending on what it is.

Then it becomes a subconscious thing. It goes from your conscious to your subconscious. If you could do it long enough and it goes there, you won't notice you're doing it anymore. It just becomes part of your routine. 

Dave: That's right. Yep. 

Lana: [00:06:00] But if you don't know that, like it's, me, you Have to know everything about it pull everything apart and figure out how it works.

Yeah, and know how habits work because If you know how they work, you can create them easier. It makes no sense. Yeah, you absolutely 

Dave: can. I will 

Lana: power doesn't have anything to do with it. It's I 

Dave: tell people in the morning that there are these I forget to take my medicine. I'm supposed to take it in the morning and I go, okay, so listen, the way that I get around that stack it, something that happens every single day when I get out of bed, I pee, right?

And we all do, we all get up in the morning, we have to pee. So the first thing I do when I get out of bed in the morning is I turn on my coffee, then I go in the bathroom to ~pee, but I don't ~pee. I have to take my pills first. So that's how I take my medicine. I take my medicine don't have to do that anymore, I bet.

What's that? Because it's, no, I don't even think about it. Yeah, it just happens. 

Lana: That's really what we want. They say that people that are the most successful in life are ~more They're ~more able to understand how to harness habit and discipline. It's not a matter of you have more ambition than the other person.

You have more willpower than the [00:07:00] other person. It's just more oh, how, I know that it's going to take me this amount of time to make this something that is subconsciously a habit that I don't think about. Yep, 

Dave: you build 

Lana: habits. There's a woman who wrote a book that I read. Anyway, she said something like, Hey I stack my habits.

I give myself a reward for a thing that I don't like. So let's say, I don't, I want to be on the elliptical. And I need to do an hour or half an hour or something a day. I also like reality shows. She goes, so I won't let myself watch a reality show unless I'm on an elliptical. That's a stacker, meaning, and it gives me something, a reward, obviously something to get lost in.

Where for her, the half an hour goes like this, it gets done, and she gets to see whatever it is that she likes to see, but she also gets done something that she doesn't like. ~is more work ~

Dave: ~normally. ~

Lana: ~Yeah. Or I have a thing where I have a TV that has a specific video game on it.~

Okay. And I call it stacking. The only, my ever drink water to the way that I should drink it is in front of that TV doing the video game. So I have. My 20 ounces of water and I sit down and I play a video game But I'll go through that water like this cuz I don't notice I'm doing it, right? It's [00:08:00] a weird unconscious habit that I do it I have to have it when I'm watching the video game, but I know I get hydrated right?

Yeah So if I'm not getting hydrated enough in a day I know I need to sit down in front of the TV get my remote and play My video game for 20 minutes or whatever. I know I'll need water with that video game. And so therefore it just gets done without me thinking about it. ~Anyway, those are somebody in my group to set something like ~

Dave: ~their stack is I'm doing the same thing.~

Like I, I have two bottles of water in front of me while we do the podcast. I talk all day long, so it's not, but for some reason, when I'm doing the podcast, I think that subconsciously. I feel like I need to drink water because I want to, I don't want my boys to be froggy. I do this and I end up drinking two bottles of water.

I don't sit and drink two bottles of water in an hour ever. It just, I don't. So what do you do for the 

Lana: other 60 ounces you need in a day? 

Dave: I drink it here and there. It's, I don't drink enough water. But, during the podcast, I do. I'm drinking the right amount of water throughout the time.

And so it's just, you're building stack and that's, I never heard them called stackers, but that's exactly what [00:09:00] they are. And I use them all the time. You 

Lana: add it to something you're already doing. You just add it to a thing. Look at Elon 

Dave: Musk, for example. He knows that he has a tough time in the morning.

He doesn't like to get up and get motivated to go to work. So what does he do? He sleeps there. When he has work to do, he sleeps on the floor at the place he's working. 

Lana: Elizabeth what's her name? I wasn't the chick that used to work for Theranos. That was what she did. ~She just went home. ~

Dave: ~Yeah. ~Some people just had the green shake and the whole bit, 

Lana: like she just lived there.

Dave: Yeah. I gotta work. And I know that one of the problems I have is, getting up in the morning and getting motivated to go there. So now he wakes up, he's already there. And he's going to do it. It's a way to force ourselves to do things and look, everybody's different. I don't have to do that.

Thank God. I am. I'm always looking forward to where you're at. Yeah. So I do get up and work, so this woman said something 

Lana: like, ~I hate, I like to run, you obviously, she said, ~obviously anything that's like workout related or anything. Like that needs to happen in the morning, cause it's just easier in the morning, less people are around.

It's the first thing you do, you get it out [00:10:00] of the way, whatever. And she's I like to run a mile or two, she goes, but I was You know, I had a couple of kids, and all this stuff, and I was like, stressing myself out about how I was gonna get it in the day. But I decided to sleep in my gym clothes. I just went to bed in what I was gonna run in.

One less thing. Cause in the morning, the last thing you wanna do is put The shit you need on to do a run at four in the morning or whatever. 

Dave: Yeah, 

Lana: she said, so that was a literally a frictional object for me that would stop me from 

Dave: right doing 

Lana: that kind of thing. She said, so I went to bed. What the hell difference does it make?

I would take a shower before I went to bed and I would get into my running clothes and go to bed. And when I woke up, I had to do my sneakers and go. 

Dave: So one of my one of my frictions is as in your you're the same way. I love learning new things. I love researching. I love that. And one of my frictional things is I hate reading.

I don't like it. I get lost. I get ADHD. So I struggle reading now. I've got, I use AI and I [00:11:00] talk to it. And so I can have a conversation with it about numerous different things. And I learned so much because, and a lot of people don't realize that, ~I, and ~I use chat GBT. That's the one that I use because ~it's, ~there's a nice app for the iPhone and you can literally speak to it ~backing ~back and forth.

And if they miscommunicate, like I'll give you an example. I just recently started growing my own food. In a hydroponic system so I can literally say to chat GPT look I got a hydroponic system These are the plants that I currently have growing These are my readings that I'm getting and she'll be like oh you want to do this you want to do that ~and I'm Learning ~and I'm learning a lot because the nice thing about AI is that it has access to everything Basically anything hopefully everything.

Lana: Yeah. 

Dave: You can ask it to look at a specific study and it will so I learned the other day Which I didn't know Because I asked it. I was talking about doge, cuz that's the big thing in the news right now, right? So I was asking questions about it and she had no idea. All she knew about was doge ~was the ~was the [00:12:00] coin, right?

I said no. I said, President Trump hired Elon Musk to doge. I said, can you look into that? And she goes, one second. And ~blah, ~blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then she came back, she had all the information on it. Which is fantastic, because now, I can tell her to look at a specific case. And I can literally give case numbers.

In docket numbers, and she'll go get it. Yeah, and I refer to her as she, cause I have a female voice on mine. You can have it if you want it. Yeah, it doesn't 

Lana: matter. It. 

Dave: It. Yeah. 

Lana: So Dave and I were, let's see, we were talking about, Oh, I do have a quick story. I like stories. And I am going to write a book about my life and this is going to be part of it.

So I had recently met somebody, the people that like three or four people that know me really well. Probably last. We had been talking since like April and anybody that is into MBTI, this guy actually had a a personality type like mine. And he first approached me to talk to me about, Oh, this came [00:13:00] back on my test and I want to know what it all means and whatever.

And we got, we started talking about this online and then we talked about some stuff for a couple of months and then decided we're going to go to dinner. We did go to dinner at some point in the late summer, early fall. We went out to dinner, really nice dinner, had a good time, really nice guy, liked the guy.

And we. He was a, he's a mechanic. He was back and forth, mostly working on people's cars, blah, blah, blah. And so we were like, hey, let's get together again. We need to do this. Alright, let's do this. And his birthday was like in November, so I think I talked to him once then. Then the holidays came through.

And, we both got busy. Neither one of us. Ooh, he's a Scorpio. 

Dave: Ooh. 

Lana: November what? Hang on. I, oh, I don't want to say. I don't want to give my Okay. 

Dave: Alright. Oh 

Lana: yeah. Hey, I said hi, how was your birthday? Oh, it was uneventful. I said, yeah, my soul's mine. Neither one of us really care much about birthdays, whatever, because this is the type we have where we just don't, that stuff doesn't matter.

The last time we talked was in November. So Thanksgiving comes and goes and Christmas and my sister comes up and budget [00:14:00] stuff happens. And I sent him a message ~late November, I think, say, I'm in a ~late January saying, listen, it's been since November since we talked. So I just want to make sure in my personality the traits and the things that I'm trying to learn and change about myself, I'm trying to be better about reaching out to people cause I suck at it so bad.

So I sent a message like, Hey, it's been since November. That's a long time. ~I don't lose. ~I don't think we should lose touch that long. And so it was a week or two went by and it was a weird feeling. And if anybody knows what I mean, it does, it's just a weird feeling of I don't think he got the message.

It's not like a matter of him seeing it. And it just, if you look at the messenger where I sent it, it looked just like there was nothing there. And I'm at work another day and a friend of mine, a co worker, is asking me about something having to do with an ad agency in the area and a person who worked there and some ad she was listening to.

And I'm like, oh, I remember talking to this kid about it. What I'll do is I'll go back to the conversation because I remember pulling the ad agency at the time and whatever. It's the stupidest thing, but It was a reference point for me. Couldn't find it in the [00:15:00] conversation so I said let me go to his Facebook page because that's where we started talking about it and the first thing on the top of the page was Rest in Peace.

That's what I'm gonna say. So when you say he is a Scorpio, I didn't want to say he was a Scorpio because I didn't want to give that 

Dave: away. Oh yeah. 

Lana: Yeah, we're at that age now, where this is gonna start 

Dave: happening. That's wonderful. That's when I get to look forward to you in the dating world now?

Lana: We're in our fifties, and we're kinda I'm not don't get me wrong. There have been people that have passed away that I've known when I was in my twenties, so it's not like 

Dave: of course. 

Lana: But what a bummer, cause what a nice guy, and the two of us had a lot of mutual friends and stuff like that and I, it just 

Dave: I was really shocked, 

Lana: so somebody said to me~ at least he didn't, ~at least he didn't ghost you, that's good news, and I'm like, you don't 

Dave: know if he's ghosting you now, because if he really liked you, he might be ghosting you in the real way. I never understood ghosts. 

Lana: Jumping off of that, I just that I'm in this group on Facebook called Gen X and I don't know, obviously we're that generation where we're trying to figure ourselves out in [00:16:00] our fifties.

Okay. How do we date? How do we be 50? Whatever. And ghosting is a weird term where everybody seems to be using it. ~It's come, ~it's going the way of narcissists. It's going the way of gaslighting where it's just becoming the answer to everything. ~It's doesn't. ~And I always stop and say wait a minute, what do you mean by ghost?

I can't even answer a question anymore when somebody asked me that, cause I have to know what the hell they're talking about. 

Dave: Cause it's probably not what you get the gist, but it just doesn't make sense. Like what it is, 

Lana: right at the beginning ghosting in the beginning meant somebody that you knew that you were talking to.

It doesn't necessarily have to be somebody you were close with, but somebody that literally drops off and you never see him again ever, like ever, right? It's not a temporary thing. Yeah. So that's the meaning of ghosts. Obviously, when somebody's dead, they ghost, they become a ghost. They become dead to you in the conversation or in your interactions or whatever.

Dave: Yeah you had true ghosting. There it is. ~I did. ~

Lana: I did and it's legit and when you're truly ghosted, it's actually not as offensive as you would think. 

Dave: Yeah, that's right. [00:17:00] It's not. 

Lana: But, I'm 

Dave: sorry to hear that. That kind of does suck. 

Lana: It was ~so ~just going over me not having any idea how to explain my feelings because I don't do that ~But it was it was really a shocker.~

It was very shocking ~It was just ~and what happened was just so 

Dave: the listeners know she does have feelings. They're just none of your business 

Lana: I'm human. I always say I'm human. So I have to have feelings. Unfortunately, I have no choice. But in my expressing my feelings probably is a different thing.

And so ~I ~I have had two or three people ~that I'm ~that I've known in my life that have gone this way. And what happened was it was stomach cancer and stomach cancer is damn. Yeah, that's when I used to work at the art bar, there was a woman by the name of Judy who was my boss there, and right after my mom died, she was really she was, Judy was a tough chick, but she was, for whatever reason, very supportive of me, and I was really close with her, cause she, she was real no nonsense, and I love that about her, and she took care of me in the sense that she checked on me for a good year after my mother died to make sure did I have somewhere to go for Thanksgiving?

Did I have whatever I needed? And I [00:18:00] was always like yeah, I'm fine. She would boss me around. You're coming to my house for Thanksgiving. If I have to drag you there she was like that. 

Dave: That's the only way to work with you. I love that. Just so you know. ~It is. ~

Lana: But, yeah. ~But, ~I love that she was And she said, listen, I lost relatives and whatever. And I know how it is. And I know that you think you can do things on your own, but I just want to make sure she died like within a year of that. 

Dave: And it was the 

Lana: same kind of thing where ~two weeks or she was, ~she had stomach cancer.

And when you have stomach cancer, it's like almost one undetectable, and two, by the time you start getting discomfort, it's too late to do anything about it. ~And yeah yeah. ~She died and nobody saw her coming when she died because she didn't know she was sick and, I know how quickly it happens and I know how unexpected it is, but ~it was ~it was shocking to see.

That's terrible. So anyway, yeah~ that, ~that happened to me recently. And I'm like I guess building character is just gonna be my strong suit in life because Yeah. I have one hell of a story to tell, but, yeah We were talking about phrases, things that people say in dating and like where they come from.

My initial conversation with Dave this morning that we've decided to move to the podcast [00:19:00] because we've just started doing a podcast without the podcast. And if you've listened to us long enough, you know what that means. It means, yeah. We just on a tangent, we had an 

Dave: hour long podcast and we weren't recording

That's really what happened. Yeah. 

Lana: ~It, ~so we're like, wait a minute. Maybe we should be doing this during the podcast. We're trying to figure out what to discuss. And ~it's. ~It's a tough thing right now with Dave being AWOL like he is, where I need structure, I crave structure, I can't just open a mic and wing it.

And Dave ~wants to just, he ~wants no restrictions whatsoever in his conversations, so ~he's whatever, ~it'll be what it is, we'll turn on the mic and it'll go where it goes, and ~I'm no, ~I need to know, ~But ~the topic ~is ~two days in advance, so I can create an outline. 

Dave: ~But did we not just do that?~

If we were coding that, that would have been a great podcast, by the way. 

Lana: ~It would have been. It would have been. ~Just so you guys. This is not the first time that we've had to say this, because we've done this before. 

Dave: We've done four hour conversations in the middle of the night. When I was not as busy, we used to constantly have four hours, numerous times a week.

That could be phenomenal podcasts. I think what we're going to have to do. ~Here's what happens ~

Lana: ~to Dave. ~Now, [00:20:00] cause we're not talking as much as we used to because of the time constraints. ~So now ~we have a ~shitload ~of stuff that we're dying to talk about because it's been too long and ~it gets worse.~

It just devolves into chaos. Anyway, 

Dave: it's chaotic, but you guys get to join in on the fun. 

Lana: ~Yes. ~So basically what we decided to do and we started talking about really where dating is right now. And with the exception of me, with me trying to be. What men in the dating world feel like they need to do or not do ~or I understand ~because of, and I'm going to bring up feminism because technically a lot of it stems back to that.

Feminism is not a bad thing. It has created a lot of

There's some confusion out there. 

Dave: No, 

Lana: I know. But what I mean is just in general, like the whole idea of it to begin with. There's really nothing bad about that. However, it's going to shift social paradigms. Yes, and let's I don't want to go ~with ~too [00:21:00] much detail because we did this in ~one ~a previous podcast like where dating was and how it became where we are now has a lot to do with what women want Like ages of things like marriage what that kind of stuff meant in the 50s what it means now what has happening now is not gonna I mean There's a lot of women out there in the dating world that don't really have any concept of where they're at and how they got there and That really should probably be a topic that people discuss. So there are women that are like, Hey, I'm 25 and I want this and I want this, but it's important to show those women, Hey, when you were, if you were born in, this Pacific, you born in 1945, you would be hard pressed to be talking about stuff like this.

This would not be your primary, what have you? Cause the world that you lived in would have been different. So you, I don't want to sound like a boomer at all, cause that's not my thing, but there's a let's use the word privilege. Isn't privilege a great word? [00:22:00] That women are privileged in this day and age to be able to say, I need this and I need that, ~and I, ~and do, the things that they want to choose are, Born out of feminism being fought and them being able to have these options.

And a lot of it comes from as a woman, ~you are, ~you have a job, you probably bought a house, you have a car you have the option to go to college after high school, there's a bunch of stuff that you're doing in your daily life that women did not do in 1950 ~and then just whatever. ~So your options are different.

You're what you want is different. So at the end of the day, I think because that women want different things. Men are now confused as to, and to be honest with you, I don't feel weird about this. ~Like I, ~I want to talk about the patriarchy, but not too much. I understand the way it used to be served men.

~In what they, ~it gave men an advantage. It did. It was easier for men to run the world. In the back of the Mad Men days, women were technically second class citizens. And there was a structure set [00:23:00] up for men back then. Where they were guaranteed partnership.

They just were. Now, is that right? I don't know. Is it wrong? I don't know. It was just the way it was back then. Now, women are choosing, as well, that's what's happening. Women are saying, okay I always bring up Archie Bunker, cause it's just, to me, it's a prototype of what women that were getting married in 1950, 1960, this was the society they lived in.

That was the norm, yeah. They didn't have jobs. They lived at home. Women lived at home for a long time before they were married. And that was the first time they got out of their house. And unfortunately, a lot of them left their house and got into a whole nother freaking situation with another. Getting married young, there's an advantage to getting married young if you're living in 1915, 1960, because you don't know what the hell's going on, you're clueless about the world, and 25 you gotta get married, otherwise you're no good, you're used goods, you're not marriable, blah blah blah.

~That, ~that stuff was not an accident, right? So when women got married [00:24:00] in 19 65 70 whatever they then rolled over and became their husband's property and I'm not gonna say in any other way That's what it was. Yep, and then it was like my husband's a piece of shit He doesn't know how to do this and that and he treats me like this I know we go to a party and he doesn't know what to say But up he pays the bills he make sure that the mortgage is paid to make sure that So there were certain things that men, yes, there were certain things that men provided.

Back then we were looking for somebody who had a stable life, who had probably a family that was stable, who would have been a good father, a 

Dave: good Sure, and he was valued for his providing capabilities as well. Yes, 

Lana: but with the exception of everything else. Okay, so ~his ~it became, I'm not saying it happened all the time, but mostly men were valued based on what they could provide, what they could fix, whatever.

Sure. It meant that if he was, he had the personality of a wet rag, then you just dealt with that. So now, I personally believe women are just looking for guys with [00:25:00] personalities that we can stand. I honestly believe that's the bottom line right now. Sure, there's women that are double dipping and doing weird things and they don't know what they want and whatever.

And I don't think that's, I think that's like that, been like that forever. 

Dave: I think that in, in all fairness, if you ask women if they want a provider, A woman will not date a man that works at McDonald's a majority of them will not 

Lana: Well, that doesn't mean they won't provide 

Dave: her. What does 

Lana: that mean?

No, we're hitting a wall here Okay, it means Most women and I think this comes from it comes from history, but it has changed Obviously the group of women I hang around with typically Bringing in the bacon the type of women i've always i've been around i've always done that 

Dave: and they don't 

Lana: complain about it 

Dave: Okay, no 

Lana: because they made that choice, right?

Yeah. 

Dave: Yeah, 

Lana: and You In the end of the day, a lot of those women were like I provide this. So we need this to be done in the house. This has to be done. A lot of the, my friends who had problems with men were men that didn't want to be domesticated. They wanted to work part [00:26:00] time. They wanted to bring in what they could and they couldn't match.

And it wasn't a bad thing. It didn't mean that they were losers. It just meant what they did for a living brought in less money than what they. My girlfriends, they were married. ~Yeah. You did. Yep. ~A lot of them were in, they were legal services or, they were in law, they were doing three figure salaries for whatever reason.

Sure. And a guy ~that worked on ~that worked at AutoZone. And was a manager there. He may have brought in for 40 or 50, but technically he'd be bringing in like a third of what she was. 

Dave: Sure. 

Lana: So in her mind, it's I bring in more money than you. So ~how. ~How are we going to do this?

And that would be the division of, I've, we've got children. Somebody's going to take care of the ~channel. ~Hey, I work a six figure job, but why is it my job to come home and take care of the kids and everything when I get home and men would be frictional about that, they'd be, I don't want to do that.

I was doing this all day. It's like, all right somebody's going to do this here. So that's. That's where and actually some of my friends 

Dave: that goes both ways too, because I, and I understand why though. So [00:27:00] for example, let's say, the guy is the one making, six figures and the woman is working at AutoZone or something like that, but she's still working full time. So they're still working the same amount of hours to just not bring it in the same amount of money. So time is time no matter what, in fact, the AutoZone worker probably works harder lugging shit and, doing more stuff. So in all fairness, either way, I get where this is coming from.

And I understand that today we struggle with this because unfortunately we're in a time now where we really don't have the family thing anymore. It's hard to, right? If both parents are working, then we have a problem because somebody's going to have to do, like the last thing I want to do after working You know, a million hours is dishes, right?

I don't want to. So I think 

Lana: it's easy enough to hire somebody to do that, but then both people have to be on board with that. And sometimes there are people who don't want to do [00:28:00] that. And exactly. But my friends actually had more of a problem with their husbands not wanting to deal with the children and now the children it's a different story with children because child Care is a ridiculous amount of money It sometimes in some cases was more money than the husband was bringing in So to have two children and have you know, literally bring them to daycare or whatever you need ~Yeah ~Was an exorbinate amount of money and it was like throwing money out the window to give it to someone else when you were making it ~You know, it was, ~it was an ever ending kind of bottomless pit and it didn't mean that the husband wasn't valued or whatever, but it's like the way like, all right I'm bringing in 130, 000 a year, whatever it is I don't think it makes sense for us to be making 40, 000 ~and bringing in ~and then paying childcare 60, in a year to take care of our children so that we can keep working.

~Like it's it makes sense to be. Okay, and ~don't get me wrong in a situation like that, the person that makes the most money, in my opinion, would be the person to save in the sense that you want to make sure that everything else is taken care of. When it comes to [00:29:00] childcare, I'm sure I know that there were problems having that conversation, right?

Why should I have to give up what I'm doing? Why should we pay for this? 

Dave: And that's the same thing. That's the struggle that men have, right? Why should I give up my career to stay home with the kids? I make more money. That's only because you're a man. No, that's not why it's because we had different.

No, I don't see. I don't 

Lana: think my friends weren't, it wasn't a matter of who made more money being women or men. It was more like, this is where the income is coming from. This is where the mortgage is getting paid. 

Dave: But there's still an argument. And you said there's a problem with the man going, why should I have to give up what I do?

We've been hearing that for years with women. Correct. Why should I give up and be a stay at home mom? If, that's where, and that's where the struggle comes in. Today because I think we're losing the fact that we're giving up on services and services are very important in any relationship, right?

We have to learn to serve each other again and we don't do that anymore. 

Lana: No, I think it is an individualist society. 

Dave: [00:30:00] It is a huge individualism. Everybody wants to do what's best for them.

Lana: I'm going to say this really quick though. The friends that I had that were ~working 30, ~working 60 hours a week and bring in six figures. Those are the women who had husbands that decided they didn't get enough attention and they cheated. That happened. And a few of those friends of mine that went through that. And that's not an answer, like that's not, it's that's not a way to handle anything. And and we live in New England.

I always say this, we live in New England, so we have the Irish Catholic thing going, or the Catholic thing going. 

Dave: Yeah, whatever. 

Lana: In the sense that, a lot of our men, and I, We did a whole podcast on men's health, but listen, if you're a guy, therapy is not the enemy, like therapy is not the end of the world.

I always say, listen, in New England, drinking and punching drywall is the therapy up here, 

and it is, it just is. 

Dave: Yeah, it has been for years and years, right? 

Lana: If you're not from around here and you watch anything like The Departed or anything like that, depicted in movies that like Irish Catholics don't like therapy.

They don't like talking about stuff outside the house. Everything gets handled in the house. And when somebody [00:31:00] gets frustrated, they drink and then they punch holes in the wall or they punch holes. ~And ~

Dave: ~so his, ~I just ~to ~say this to the men real quick, the men that are listening, listen, if you believe that you're going to be less of a man by going to therapy, just don't tell anybody.

It's a very private thing. For years and years, I consider myself a masculine man. I'm not by any stretch of the imagination, a weak man, ~but I want to It almost doesn't even have to do with that. But I think it does. I think that, ~I think it does because it's I don't need therapy.

I'm strong enough and ~it's more of a, ~it's more of a pride thing. I think. And so for me, to be able to learn where my shit was coming from in my life was phenomenal for me. Because it allowed me, I'm still the same man that I was. I'm not less masculine because of it. I'm not less of a man because of it.

I just want to be myself. People don't realize that, if you're ~going to ~getting help or just you're not even getting help. I didn't get help I understood myself and helped myself. That's really what it comes to. 

Lana: That's what most people are doing 

Dave: Yes, a hundred percent, but ~we don't ~we didn't look at it like that even when I was young Oh, and they're like, oh you got to go to therapy like sucks.

Lana: I know. Yeah, what a [00:32:00] stigma ~it's not just, it's unbelievable. ~

Dave: It's not just New England. You go to any of the southern states, they're the same way. Men are men and, no, I'm just this big heman and I can do it myself. I'm fine. 

Lana: ~It's, I guess if you, I don't know. There's a whole nother podcast that we had about that, and we've read, we did discuss this already, but I'm just saying it, ~there's nothing wrong with going somewhere and sorting your shit out and to say, and I'm gonna quote somebody's husband that I've been friends with for. 40 years or 30 years or something like that. When the baby was born and she spent all her time making sure the baby was okay There was a lack of attention That he was getting. 

Dave: Yes. 

Lana: And he specifically thought that was reason enough to go find somebody else to kiss his ass because he wasn't getting his crusts cut off his bread anymore because that child was now, 

Dave: yeah, that becomes a little silly.

And honestly I've seen some studies they've done and I'm not saying that's okay. He's wrong a hundred percent. But when a lot of times there's a husband and wife and they love each other. And what happens when they have kids, especially today when we were [00:33:00] kids, totally different story.

The husband and wife was still the husband and wife. We were shut the hell up, go outside and play. They still maintain their relationship, which today the child comes between the two. And if you ask anybody, and I saw it was very interesting. They had people line up and they brought them and they said, the husband and wife and the two children come up here.

Guess where the parent, the husband and wife stood on the outsides and they put the kids in the middle. Yeah. It just showing the world, this is how we live and it's unfortunate because we've come to this thing that, oh, the kids are the most important things. They're really not because if the parents aren't well, the kids aren't well.

And that's a fact. So ~I believe in ~

Lana: ~parrot. I believe in I believe in what's the word I'm looking for? The pendulum. ~I believe in the pendulum. In the sense that, when we were kids, it wasn't right to be where we were either. Where people didn't know if ~our children, ~their children were, like, in the neighborhood or what.

Or dead. 

Dave: Yeah, they had the commercials. 

Lana: Yeah. However, the pendulum swing shouldn't have gone ~in ~so far in the other direction. And so there should be some middle ground of, Hey, we're [00:34:00] friends! And we became lovers, and we got married, and ~we were ~we're each other's world. And that's why Empty Nest Syndrome happens, because ~Yes.~

All of a sudden, everybody's not focusing on the kids anymore, ~because ~And the two parents in the house, ~if there are And they ~end up getting divorced. Don't know each other anymore. 

Dave: Yeah, once the kids leave, so many people now, if you look at statistics they stay together with the kids there.

Because they're focused on the kids, and then when the kids leave, they have nothing in common anymore. They've never done anything together anymore. 

Lana: Or, one person's a piece of shit, and they just stay for the sake of the kids to get out of the house. Which, I know a few of those, too. That's true, too. But yeah, I just don't think that~ focusing Like ~laser focusing on anything like that is healthy.

So hey, we're going to do our own thing and hey, our kids might, end up, they're going to be out till 10 o'clock at night and maybe there'll be home. Maybe they won't. Maybe we'll see him on a milk cart in two days. It's not a good day. Way to be a parent. No, exactly. But also let's like, focus all our energy on the child and not have a life of our own is also not an answer.

But ~the ~I'll go, we'll go back to the topic we were talking about. [00:35:00] Cause Dave and I were talking about dating today. ~What ~what the dynamics are like out there or what the feeling is out there. And back to I'm going to quickly get back to what I was saying, which is that women are now looking for a different thing.

The thing I'm a little bit perplexed about is that men are not. And the reason, I don't know why that is. I think that managers may be raised in an environment where they just haven't learned a different way. Because life has changed. The world has changed. So women are changing and saying, okay, we would have had a husband that took care of us and we would have had, this would have been our priority at one point, but now we have jobs.

~We have, ~there's nothing to provide us that we don't already have. So in my opinion. Because what do I know, right? I know what I would want in a relationship now, and that would be like a teammate. So when you say McDonald's, because I've got to bring that around a circle we're not looking for somebody who doesn't work at McDonald's because we want to be supported.

We're looking at somebody who doesn't work at McDonald's because we're looking for ambition. And what we're looking for ~ambition ~is to match ours. So if we, don't get me wrong, if you're with a guy and the [00:36:00] world sucks and there's nowhere to get a job and McDonald's is hiring, Then fuck it, go to McDonald's and get a job.

If that's all you can do, you need to get by. 

Dave: You're just not gonna get a girlfriend because you're not motivated. 

Lana: ~I would say like I said, it depends. ~The pandemic was a weird time where ~like ~people got shaken outta the trees and a lot of people started taking jobs they needed to take because of, so the world in the way that ~what ~things are going on in the world is a different story, but in general.

It's the ambition that women are looking for, in my opinion, based on people I know, and based on people I've talked to. We don't want you to pay us to live. We're not looking for you to take care of us, per se. What we're looking for is, we take care of us, and you take care of you, and let's together become a team.

And the ambition, or the ability to want, and again, this is just a mishmash of personalities, so nobody's wrong about this. 

Dave: I know men, women are just more or less likely to date down than a man will, right? Because if you ask a man, would he date somebody who works at McDonald's, he'll say, [00:37:00] yeah, cause you know, I can provide. 

Lana: Now your point on that might be that women should be less. And my point is why would men want to date down? They shouldn't be doing that either. What's important to them is what's important to them. And for women, it's the same thing. What's important to us is what's important to us.

And so I don't know that's almost like a. I don't know that's a fallacy that, that matches in the sense that's your choice. ~We talked about the ~

Dave: ~pendulum, ~we talked about the pendulum swinging, right? So it went, again, I believe it was gone too far. So if it's gone to the complete opposite side, then shouldn't it be the case that women are the providers and are okay with that?

Because they're not. 

Lana: There are women that are providers. There are women I know that are. 

Dave: I understand that but what I mean by that is that ~they ~because you talk about your friends and, if one of them works as a six figure job and her husband works as a manager. But 

Lana: we're realistic though.

When you look at the household you have to do what you have to do, so we're not looking at I don't want a man who doesn't work. We're looking at what the fuck we need to do to get this household in order ~We ~yeah, I'm working a six figure job, and I meet a guy ~or ~that I like and yeah sure he works at McDonald's I don't care [00:38:00] because he's working as long as he's busted his ass and trying to make a paycheck I'm not gonna care where it's coming from ~right but ~the dynamics of who men will marry and who women will marry ~and whatever Women will ~Also involves family dynamics.

So if a woman doesn't want children, then it's not gonna make any difference to her ~if he's, ~if he's just gonna be home, then why? Cause there's nothing going on there. If there's kids ~there, ~it's different. Okay, somebody's gotta be here to take care of these kids. These kids cost money. I get that.

But if we're just gonna get married and live together, or we're just gonna date, ~And ~it doesn't matter then why would a man be supported just like why would a woman be supported? I believe because there was a point in time with feminism where we were like that Okay. If we marry you and there's no children, what the fuck are we doing eating bonbons all day?

We why can't we work? I don't want my woman. What else are we going to do all day? Yeah, we're gonna go right and if you've ever seen the movie The Help, What are we gonna go sit on the bridge club and we're gonna go like Women just were bored and needed to go do something and so they [00:39:00] Came PTA people and all kinds of other stuff because like they were actually forbidden to go get a job Yeah, and there's a lot of reasons why men didn't want women to work And I won't get into those now, but I'm sure you can imagine one of them being oh the situation We're in now because men were afraid well, what if she could find something outside the house is more excited than me and I don't have any value 

Dave: look at today's dating culture, right?

~Okay ~there's multiple options and people today are exactly doing that. They keep their multiple options open Always it's a very that's why it's so well statistically. It's a majority, right? That's why there's so many single people in the world today in the country I can't speak for other countries because other countries still have different cultures here in this country we have a large in fact, there are more people cheating today than ever before Ever in history that we don't know 

Lana: that's true because I believe that we didn't know what was 

Dave: going on back then I can tell you from experience that because i'm an older man So I don't [00:40:00] appear to be a threat or somebody that would attach myself to them and I get offers all the time From younger women who are in relationships or married.

I don't do that because I don't believe that marriage should be something serious, but I hear it all the time. Because people talk to me about, open things, and they're like, listen I don't, I'm not, certain things I want, I still want to have fun. I still want to enjoy myself.

Then what did you get married for? Or why are you in a relationship? I'm not talking about just women. I feel like there's people 

Lana: that have gotten away from the norms of society as well. In the sense that like, how sacred is marriage to people today based on how it used to be because the world is different, so a lot of people think marriage is just a duke.

It's like a disposable duke. 

Dave: Disposable dating culture is what we got going on today. ~We do, ~

Lana: ~but ~

Dave: I 

Lana: don't know that where we were was the right way to do it either. No, I get that. It's an evolving community. 

Dave: ~Yeah. ~

Lana: I got this little nugget of information. ~I always, ~I'm always digging for stuff that I can find [00:41:00] out.

So I get on dating sites. Dave will tell you, more than likely, dating sites I'm on are more for my amusement and for my analyzation than anything else. ~Yeah she's ~so I don't, ~I ~really ~don't ~care to meet people as much as like I'm fascinated by the dumb stuff they say and I gotta know why and all that stuff.

Most guys don't wanna play along, they're trying to date and I'm like no, I don't care about that. I just wanna know, like, why you thought that would be a good opening line. And a guy said to me ~the, ~not long ago, and I forget what dating site it was on, but whatever, they were all the same. I think it might've been plenty of fish, but he said "are we still meeting at the time that we thought we were going to meet or?" he said something like that. And I got thrown off by that and was like, does this dude think he's talking to somebody else? So I did my usual thing and said do have we, but we talked because I don't think we have. And he came back and he said, Oh no, we haven't but I'll tell you, these are the type of responses I get quicker than "hi how are you?"

So he literally wrote back and said, Yeah these are the ones that get the most responses, like just off the cuff, stuff that I say. 

Dave: He's being silly, yeah. 

Lana: I don't know if [00:42:00] he's being silly or not, he's basically saying to me, If I had said, 

Dave: he's basically saying, I want to meet you. 

Lana: No, he wasn't saying that what he was saying was not that he wanted to meet me, but that ~it ~saying something like that off the bat to a woman is going to get a quicker response than the formal.

Hi, how are you? That he's been trying to use and that doesn't work for men. Now I did see one girl who put a video up. I think it was TikTok. She had a man, a guy that she was friends with and they had known each other for years. They were like brother and sister. And he wanted to get a dating site together and he didn't know what to do.

And she was like I'll help you. I think she made it. I don't remember what her situation was, if she had a boyfriend or whatever, but she was like, I'll help you. I'll put it together for you and whatever. And she decided to -as him, log in and just do his thing. And she came back with a, Oh my God this ruined my life.

Like I literally as him, became depressed and like the non response of what was going on [00:43:00] as a guy was disheartening to me. Like I literally had a traumatic response as him to like, what kind of, she said, first of all, I was flipping through every single profile with somebody that came out of cosmopolitan she's or for whatever, his parameters were for who he was looking for.

She's I think she said she would go through and swipe for him and things like that. Cause she was trying to help him out. And she's I, every woman looked like a completely in, in unattainable aspect of dating. Like every one of them, to me, looked like somebody I could never talk to cause they would never talk back to me or whatever.

She goes, and then, On top of it, every time I sent anything out, ~it got, ~it went into a black hole. Like it was like, I wasn't there and I didn't, so I can understand that. I'm like, ~again, ~every time I see these videos, I have no idea what the origin of these is, some chick that thought it would be fun to say who the hell knows.

None of us were there, but it's just that weird concept of. I try very hard to tell [00:44:00] women, listen, when you're on a dating site, stop trying to get caught up in ~like ~the minutiae of the thing. So when somebody says something to you that you don't like, instead of going, Ah, I can't believe somebody would say that to me And firing back at them.

I'm not trying to be mean to men, but this is attention they're getting. So ~when they say something to you, this, ~when somebody says something that's ~like ~offensive to you or whatever it is they don't know it's offensive to you, ~they, ~they might hope it's offensive to you because they're just looking for women to show that they're not dead.

~That's up. ~I really think some men are just trying to get a response. Out of women in general, it doesn't even matter at all. 

Dave: Yeah. Yeah, 

Lana: Just because they're not getting responses from anybody about anything So that old adage of the toddler who throws a tantrum because his parents will stop what they're doing and pay attention to him.

All attention is good attention for some people. I think for guys like that's just, they're never going to get a date out of it. But I think a lot of them at some point don't even care. They're just looking to get responses. 

Dave: I think people are getting frustrated and mad in the dating world. Look, we're [00:45:00] in a society now that you just swipe.

Really? Yeah. It's 

Lana: I know. That's why I never thought it would come to this with you. 

Dave: ~No, that's terrible. ~Dating 

Lana: stuff would go by the wayside because it was so weird. ~It's just, ~

Dave: ~it's terrible. ~It's really a bad idea because it's you've got literally, I could literally sit there for an hour and a half swiping through different women and I go, Ooh, she's better than the last one.

She's better than the last one. So who am I going to focus on when they're sending me messages, right? I'm going to focus on the one that I'm the most attracted to, as opposed to actually having a conversation because most of them don't turn into conversations. Anyways, they're brief. ~It is for me.~

So I use hinge. That's the only one that I use. Because you both have to, before you can talk, you both have to match. But I noticed that even if somebody reaches out to me first and then I match with them and I try to have a conversation, they're just gone. Yeah. It's okay, so what did you match with me for?

Lana: I don't think this is personal. I think a lot of people are having this problem and this is what I think is happening. As far as, I can only speak to women because I only know women complaining about [00:46:00] it. I know that some people just swipe anything that looks good and then they wait. They probably take a cut and paste and throw it out for everybody.

If it's something like Bumble where you have to be, I think they ~changed that. I think Bumble ~changed that whole women have to talk first thing. Because, and I'm so sorry ladies to do this to you, but you guys were stupid enough to forget that you had to start the conversation. A lot of women in Bumble's profiles were like, I'm not gonna talk to a man unless he talks to me first.

It's kinda the whole app is based on you speaking first. ~It's not, ~so you can't have that demand. I think they got rid of it because ~of ~

Dave: in a society where You don't want the man to lead and then 

Lana: no, but I mean anything 

Dave: about it, right? 

Lana: ~I have, ~this comes down to critical analysis and people actually having any idea what the fuck they're reading these days.

I don't think anybody's ~had, ~has any reading comprehension about anything. So when you get on Bumble, the whole point of Bumble is that women are supposed to make the first move, which I liked because I personally~ I ~prefer to do that. I just end up with better results that way. [00:47:00] But women were joining it not knowing what the hell the app was about and didn't want to read it or whatever.

Or they're just so set in their ways that. You know they decided that they were just gonna go in and ~or they just ~cut and paste a profile from tinder and thought it Was ~be ~the same thing I don't really know but bumble had to get rid of that because many women were just not understanding the concept of it 

Dave: ~So I and it wasn't in and again You know you I mean ~I hear women all the time saying look if he doesn't pursue me I'm not interested if he's interested in me.

He'll pursue me. ~I hate a so which I you know I hate so listen ~I don't mind it, but if we're going to do it that way, then let's do it that way. Because if we're expected to lead and then. ~We're expected to, ~pick where we go on the date and girls want that. I don't want to have to tell him where I want to meet him.

I want him to pick a date and I hear it all the time and I'm like, okay, you want me to do that? 

Lana: I don't get it. 

Dave: But you can't even keep the conversation going. I'm expected to do all this, and what do I get? Nothing? A swipe? Because now, ~you're looking at, ~again, we're in a disposable dating culture.

~Yeah. ~I decided that I will [00:48:00] never go on a date with anybody from Hinge. I'm looking at it as more of a game thing now, too. ~Yeah. ~When I got nothing to do. But in reality, I will not date somebody if I've not met them in person first. And I don't mean I want to meet them on the internet.

I'm not interested in dating somebody from hinge at all. I want to meet somebody out and about. ~I just want to, and ~I'm going to start talking to more people now that becomes an issue too today because people are like, what are you talking for? But I'm doing it anyway. So if they don't like it, then sorry, I offended you for saying hello.

~And that's, ~

Lana: ~I don't think I see that, the, alright, ~the Me Too movement happened, and I'm gonna speak on behalf of women on that. ~If, ~there are men that come over to me, that will come up and say to me, I can't even talk to women anymore, now ~women, ~men can't speak to women anymore.

And I'm like, I don't think that's happening. I think that's an emotional response to what's happening, like ~you're, that ~you're falling into the oh, what if somebody takes it the wrong way, so I'm just not going to talk to anybody, which I guess is okay if that's what you want to do, but don't say women don't want to be spoken to.

In general, because that's [00:49:00] not true. Now, you might run into a woman like that. That's her problem. And you say, okay sorry, and you just move on. ~It's not, ~you're not going to get taken to jail for saying hi to anybody. That's an overreaction, I think. ~It ~

Dave: ~is. I definitely agree with you. You're right.~

Lana: So I know, I feel like men in general are just like jumping up and down and getting mad because they just can't do things the way they used to do and they don't like it and they don't want to change that, right? So their thing is I'm just not going to speak to anybody ever again. As a matter of fact, there was a conversation I had with a bunch of people about persistence, which anybody knows me knows I hate it.

I hate persistence. It doesn't make sense to me. If a woman says no, that's it. If she says no, and she means yes. Then this is not your problem. That's on her. 

Dave: We did a podcast on that actually, because you're right. I've had a woman say, I'm not interested. And then she's if you really liked me, you would have pursued me.

And I go, I'm not pursuing somebody that said I'm not interested. What am I? 

Lana: Now I've looked at being the weirdo that I am. I went down a rabbit hole and I've looked at past generations and stuff that was going back [00:50:00] into the 1800s. 

Dave: ~Hard to get was a thing. ~

Lana: Hard to get was a thing, but there was literally a social Ostracizing that would happen for women who were like too eager to say yes, correct, but again, I believe Society back then especially in the 1800s was man run.

Dave: ~That was geez we started off with bopping them on the head and dragging them home and having babies with them If women ~

Lana: ~couldn't say yes right away and they had to say no three or four times Guess who came up with that idea, right? ~That was y'all. All right. Yeah. Yeah Now, of course, ~no day, no, ~in this day and age, no man now is responsible for that, but I'm just saying, that's where that originated.

Where women were seen as seedy, or ~Easy. ~Easy. Whatever. Okay. Now, we're like, coming out of the woodwork saying, okay, we don't Really like that, but there are women who are going to again I don't know where women today are getting that from because ~they're ~none of them were alive in the 1800s.

Dave: I know okay yeah, 

Lana: and when a woman said and I don't care you could get mad at me if you want find me on Facebook We'll talk about this find me on Instagram We'll talk about this if you don't want to be bothered with a man And you say no or you do want to be bothered with a man you [00:51:00] say no How is that man supposed to determine the difference 

Dave: or better yet?

Come on the show and talk to us face to face because that's interesting. We'll do that 

Lana: But also this stuff about men pursue, this is what they do. It's in their DNA and they have to pursue as a woman. When women tell me that I'm like, first of all, what kind of, where are you getting this from? It only serves your interest as a woman to talk like that, because then you don't have to pick a finger up this, I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say about this.

Dave: Yeah. If you like, listen today, I'm going to tell women, this is for women and coming from a man, a single man. If you are interested in a man. Let him know that it's okay to let him us know that because if you don't let us know that Because, and I'm not saying the Me Too movement was a bad thing. I'm just saying it became way overblown.

Everything does. Every time we have a good thing, we stretch it into something that's ridiculous. So now we've gotten to the point, whether it's the man's side of the female side, it doesn't even matter. It's both sides because there's always going [00:52:00] to be the people that are, I'm not afraid to talk to women because of the Me Too movement.

I'm still going to if she doesn't like it then she's taking it too far on the Me Too side. And 

Lana: she's an adult and can say, no, she can say, I don't like this. 

Dave: Exactly. She can say I'm just shopping. Leave me alone. Whatever. Yeah. Okay, cool. Sorry to bother you. That's going to, that's going to be my response, right?

Yeah, simple. But I think that we've swung it so far to the other side that ~if you're, ~if you say no to a guy, expect him to go away because unless he's a stalker, he's supposed to go away. Because ~didn't, ~we've been told for years and years since I was a kid. Okay? And I'm 58. No means no.

~What do we, ~what do you want us to do at that point? 

Lana: Listen, I come from the 80s, I'm a Gen X kid. I don't know how many friggin movies there were about the guy that pursued and got what he wanted in the end. And we were all kids and we watched those movies because we did. What did we know, right? If you go back to these 80s movies and look at them a lot of them are, like, disturbing.

~Bang. ~[00:53:00] When you look back ~at today's, ~through today's eyes, if you look at stuff like St. Elmo's Fire and Emilio Estevez going after Andie McDowell to the point where he's showing up at parties. That was some fucked up shit. 

Dave: Yeah, he was a stalker. 

Lana: You know what I mean? And she was, oh, gracious, and trying to be okay, blah, blah, blah, because probably she was worried about ending up in ~her, ~somebody's trunk.

When you think about it, women are programmed not to be harsh and rude. ~We, ~we don't know what this dude's gonna do. And we know because of some statistics I've been looking at recently about murder suicides and things like ~that ~That, there's~ shit ~the Gabby Petito thing's coming out on Monday, and ~it's ~you can end up with somebody that just doesn't know how to handle, that, going back to men that need therapy, that don't know how to emotionally regulate their shit.

And decide killing the person you're with or going after the person you're with is a better idea than getting your own shit together. We don't know if that's the case, right? And we watch True Crime. I did that whole episode on True Crime for Halloween, which you should listen to, by the way.

Dave, I'm sure you haven't. About why women are so interested in True Crime. It's because it's sad, [00:54:00] but it's educational for most of us. About what not to do based on shit that we're seeing. 

Dave: This stuff exists, right? ~We're, ~it's unfortunate. Persistence is, yeah. Yeah, persistence is not necessarily a bad thing, right?

Lana: But It depends on what it is. 

Dave: It totally does, exactly. And ~I think there's, ~I think there's a separation of what's acceptable and what's not, right? 

Lana: Listen, if you want a job and you want to work for ...

Dave: you better make phone calls and you better be persistent. 

Lana: ~Right persistence ~but ~a ~persistence with a job is ~not it's ~a different dynamic than persistence with a relationship 

Dave: But it still can be done wrong. You know what I mean? ~Can be done ~

Lana: ~wrong, but i'm saying yes ~It's because the job culture sets you up to be persistent They ask you to do that in so many ways ~culture ~the culture of business is that way 

Dave: ~there was literally ~I have a friend that owns a business and they literally had to get a restraining order on this guy because he would not Stop He literally called them at home.

~He was ~he thought he was being persistent, but he was being way too much way over the top. Okay. So guys, you can be a little persistent. Look, if a girl is you're around her, let's say, and she's, and you got to remember [00:55:00] persistence was different when we were younger because we were in a community.

We may have been being flirtatious with a girl that, we know we're at a ~potty ~with her and we're being flirtatious and she wasn't flirting back, but we didn't give up. We would still, do that. And then eventually, cause I've been in situations, my girlfriend. ~In ~my high school, sweetheart, actually, ~she, ~we were not interested in each other at all at the beginning.

~I, then when I was interested in her ~I was persistent a little bit, but not to the point where I was stalking her. ~That's, ~there's a big difference between being a little persistent and, because don't forget back then we still played ~hot. ~The girls still played hard to get ~right.~

Lana: They, it was not in our time, but that's what we were taught we were supposed to do, 

Dave: but you can tell too, though, because they were flirty about it. You know what I mean? They wouldn't tell you about it. 

Lana: I think that you have a better, maybe a better understanding of human nature, because I got to tell you, and I'll send this to you when we're done.

I have, there's somebody that I spoke to twice in December that is still texting me. I told him in December 15th, don't talk to me anymore. [00:56:00] And he's still sending me texts. Some people really don't have any awareness of whether or not. 

Dave: That's, you should be able to tell. And I think it becomes more difficult in, because we're in a digital age now.

Yeah. I don't see your face when you send me a text. In fact, a lot of texts are misconstrued. That's a fact. 

Lana: I think you should take them literally or ask what they mean if you have a problem 

Dave: with it. Yes, exactly. But a lot of people idealize today. And that's a huge thing. 

Lana: No, I think they, I actually think they always have.

Dave: They always have, yes. But it's so much easier to idealize now because it's digital, right? 

Lana: It also serves your ego to do that, 

you don't think? You can't imagine. 

Dave: We're living in a very egotistical time. 

Lana: Listen, pursuing anybody that might not like you back, and, I try to tell people this all the time, what if?

Run your scenarios in your head. What's the worst that could happen here? Okay, if the worst that could happen happens, what happens? How do you feel about that? So if ~you pursue a girl that doesn't like you, or you might not like you back I don't want to say pursue because we don't want to do that, But I'm saying, ~you approach a girl that might not like you back.

If you can't handle somebody saying they [00:57:00] don't like you, Then go home and figure out your shit. You cannot be outcome dependent, which we've talked about before, meaning you can't live your whole life based on how the outcome is going to go. And you can't be discouraged by the outcome going wrong.

If you can't handle how it could go either way. 

Dave: Whatever happened to the whole sales approach, right? Every no that you get, you're one step closer to a yes. That ~doesn't mean from the same person, it ~doesn't mean from the same person. It means from the next person. 

Lana: I get it. That goes back to these messages we get on these dating sites where I think guys are just like if I got a hundred women, I'll just send a bunch of dumb shit to a hundred women.

One of them will be fine with it. Okay. If you push your numbers the way of you and that's fine. 

Dave: Look, if you're trying to get a woman to send you naked pitches, I promise you that you can absolutely do that. There are women that will gladly send naked pictures because they're there. The rare attention seekers are willing to do that for.

I

Lana: I [00:58:00] don't personally see what they get back from that. That's what's so valuable. I really don't. 

Dave: ~I think it's, ~I think it's the guy going, Wow. It's just good enough. 

Lana: Like anybody could, you could send your picture to chat GPT and it'll go, "wow," if you ask it to. Who difference does it make? Who says that to you?

Dave: It's and we've talked about this too. The likes, right? Everybody goes for the likes. I literally had a girl that is a friend of mine and she's going to know who she is if she's listening to this, but she's go on my thing and like my picture. I go, I'm standing here looking at you.

I know that you're pretty. I don't need to, doesn't, shouldn't that mean more to you than a like from strangers? And it doesn't. 

Lana: So I, As a fan of intrinsic motivation, I don't believe that you should be worrying about anybody liking or not liking your shit. You should like yourself. And you should be able to stand in the mirror and look at yourself and say, Okay, I'm good with this.

And outside of that, what people say or do should not sway your opinion. Obviously you should have some sort of humility towards whatever. 

Dave: Listen we're Gen [00:59:00] X, so we're a lot different than people today. 

Lana: But I will say this, there was a quote somewhere that said, if you put your happiness in somebody else's hands, they'll drop it every fucking time.

They'll drop it. So don't do that. Because if you do that, They're going to be irresponsible with it and you're going to end up not happy. 

Dave: And I wish those words, I wish those words Lana people would listen to when you said, don't do that. Cause they're going to continually do it over and over.

It's I watched this thing on, on, I think it was Netflix. And it was based the, these young girls, they were young and they literally would post a picture. And if within 30 seconds, they didn't have over a hundred likes, they would delete the picture. 

Lana: Yeah, 

Dave: because they were embarrassed. 

Lana: Oh, we watched that.

I remember that. 

Dave: Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's crazy 

Lana: It is 

Dave: like what would it be like dating that woman? I'm sure she's a woman now She's got to be older It's 

Lana: going towards these people that like want to be somebody so famous and then they put themselves through fucking 100, 000 worth [01:00:00] of plastic surgery to look like somebody it's just a weird, I think it's honestly a weird focus thing that goes on in their brain that just goes fucking haywire, like, how can you do that?

And then at the end, of course, the result is less than fucking, Whatever they're looking for, it doesn't happen. I don't know what they're looking for, but it doesn't, I'm not sure what their result is supposed to be or what they, whatever it is, they're always disappointed with the results of what they did.

Dave: So if you've got a million people~ let's say ~let's say we go in our podcast, it's a million. Listeners. Great. Because guess what? We're making money from it. But in reality, if we 

Lana: Does it make us feel better as people, do we like ourselves more? 

Dave: I like the podcast more. That's it. 

Lana: But that's what I'm saying. Is our self worth tied into that? 

Dave: No, it's not. And that's the thing is that it doesn't mean that, that I'm going to be like, okay, now this is my life. And people have taken this, these like things and made it their life. So they don't even, they don't even realize. Wait, because [01:01:00] look, Love & Life with Lana and Dave, you're listening to it right now and we appreciate it very much, but as soon as we're done recording this, we have lives like real ones that it doesn't matter how 

Lana: That's why we come across so well in the podcast.

Dave: Yeah it is because we're real. Yeah, we're a hundred percent. We're not just looking for likes where we're just enjoying conversation with each other and we share that. If it gets popular, that's great. If it doesn't, we're still going to talk like this. Forever. You know what I mean? We did this long before the podcast started and we'll probably do it long after the podcast dies if it dies.

Yeah, if that does, but it's simple to record these things, so we just record our conversations now and that's exactly what we're doing now, 

Lana: So since we're doing this once a month, we're not gonna put too much of a restriction on time 

*****End of Part 1*****